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Picture this you're on the couch, each wearing sweatpants, at a Seem Better Days, when your spouse decides to wordlessly plop down, half on your lap, half on the armrest, like a cat who only pretends to be aloof.
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There's not a hint of smooching or dramatic violin music, just two people content to squish together until someone's foot goes numb.
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This kind of low-key closeness is the backbone of marital bliss Part cozy blanket, part strategic weight distribution and entirely essential to surviving the daily adventures of tax forms, grocery lists, children and learning how to fold a fitted sheet without bursting into tears.
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Welcome to another episode of Amplified Marriage.
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I'm Natalie.
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I'm Brian.
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Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, as you hear us say every podcast get comfy, cozy, grab a coffee and a tea.
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We're so glad you joined us for our chat today cozy, grab a coffee and a tea.
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We're so glad you joined us for our chat today.
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It has been a few moons since we've posted another episode of this particular podcast that's right.
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In case you forgot, we are in the seven pillars of intimacy series and we managed.
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This is number two wow, wow.
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We have had an exceptionally challenging year and we are back.
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We we have a plan all the way till the end of whenever this is over, but we're so excited to be back and to be talking about a few topics.
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We are right into our what is it?
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Six pillars, seven pillars, six pillars.
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I think it's six or seven pillars of intimacy.
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We're here for a little bit.
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We're here for the six pillars of intimacy, and the first one that we had on the first week was all about emotional intimacy.
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Yes, so if you missed that one, please go check that one out.
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Absolutely, and we just want to say a happy new year.
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Happy new year to all.
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It is the new year, it is 2025.
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I'm very excited for this year.
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I'm glad 2024 is over.
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Yeah, absolutely, and we're looking forward to this year.
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So we are on to pillar number two.
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Yes.
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And I'm going to say If it wasn't obvious in the intro.
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I don't know, maybe it wasn't obvious.
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Maybe, but we're going to talk about physical intimacy, but we're not talking about sex.
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That's right For all of you listening because you saw physical intimacy you're like sad.
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Yeah, that'll be the very last pillar, but we need to build on these other five pillars before we get to the sex pillar right, the sex or the sixth.
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whichever, sex or sixth whichever one we're going to do, and so we just want to start with just defining what physical intimacy is without sex.
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So you are aware of where we're coming from and why this is so important in a married couple Very much important in a married couple.
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So it's not just, it's much, like we said in our intro, it's just those little things that actually make the difference, that connect two people.
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So when we define this, it is intimacy beyond just sex.
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It's important that non-physical intimacy will build and foster and create emotional and relational bonds between you and your partner.
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That's right.
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Right.
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And it's like I just had a thought we've we're kind of like in the process of starting a marriage I don't know what you'd be ministry, but where we had a conference and it was friendship, it was on friendship.
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Because, honestly like.
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This is where this falls into.
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Beyond a physically intimate relationship, these are the foundational pieces of building a friendship of the non-sexual touch Right.
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So this is super important.
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This is what's going to carry you through those times when there isn't as much physical intimacy or maybe there's a time where there is no physical intimacy.
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This is what you're going to draw from when looking at your spouse.
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Right and we just want to set the stage for this Physical intimacy.
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I couldn't imagine being in a relationship with someone who just didn't want to touch and it's not like I'm a super touchy guy.
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No, when we talk about love languages, physical touch for both of us is at the bottom.
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It's at the bottom with, I think, gift giving.
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Right, I'm not a super touchy guy, but we do realize that we hold hands, we kiss, we hug, especially because we have kids.
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They need to see that mom and dad actually love each other.
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And it goes beyond just saying I love you and then pat on the shoulder like a robot, I love you.
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Uh, and then pat on the shoulder like a robot, I love you, and then you walk away.
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It's so much more than that, and so when we talk about this, it's like it, it this kind of touch, it nurtures and it builds it.
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There's value in that connection that's right and it's being intentional every day but it's also like uh, um, it builds love and trust.
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So say we take, for instance, when your dad passed away a few years ago, the first thing you did when you heard the news was come into, like you came to me and we hugged, we talked, we prayed it out.
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But you wouldn't have felt that kind of trust or love or connection had we not built that relationship in a place where there's a tragedy that happened.
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Where do I go to?
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Well, I can go to my partner right away, immediately, right, that's right.
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And then so these things actually build, uh, build bonds between each other and we.
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We love to talk about this one here we've talked about with our kids and we talk about sex with our kids and relationships as they get older and those kind of things.
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But the role that you're if you probably have heard of this called oxytocin, the love hormone bonding hormone it's the bonding one, and so now you're emotionally and spiritually and mentally connected with someone when you begin that love bonding, and so much more so when you start having sex.
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Yes, but that ox, that love hormone like there's we're going to get to in a little bit, but the psychological benefits of actually just touching and hugging are so incredibly important.
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Between, uh, between that can't.
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Let's get this straight.
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There's no way I'm going to my buddy, nathan, and hugging him for 20 seconds I mean read the room.
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Yeah, this okay when we say this specifically to you listeners this is between you and your spouse that's right not you, and and I mean if your best friend is is up for that, like if I was, I'm pretty sure Nathan would just punch me out and be like dude.
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What are you doing?
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Yeah, there's an acceptable time of sort of lingering.
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Yeah, there's an acceptable time living.
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But look, the psychological benefits of the intimacy are so big they're like they actually will reduce stress.
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Right, so if you're stressed, hug more.
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Yeah, if you're stressed, hug more.
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Yeah, if you're stressed hey, I'm stressed right now I think we should hug more.
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All right, but it reduces stress.
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There's increased, like they've done tests where they've put the electrodes on people and they've done the test of the brain as they've done.
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This kind of connection, it strengthens relationships, it brings up, uh, feelings of happiness, and so there's so much power in just hugging and holding hands and connecting.
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Exactly Without it leading to sex, to sex Right.
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Right.
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So this is not well.
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I'm going to do all of these things in hopes that right.
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And sometimes it does when, like the non, you have no intentions of it going there.
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And then it does and that's great.
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But more often than not we're talking about where it doesn't lead to that, but it's just it's bonding the two of you so then I mean that also being said too, like sometimes we want it to go that way and our body responds that way, right, like you know, like it just does.
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There's hormonal responses when a dude sees or touches right.
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That's right, but there's also some self-control that is needed, because more often for us that's not the first thing on our minds.
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No, and it's not that it's not the first thing on our mind.
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It's not the first thing on our mind, but there's always a hope that, hey, we get to do this, we get to have sex.
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That's right.
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But we're talking about building the importance of it, like holding hands while you're just hanging around or you're watching TV.
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Well, back to what we said at the beginning.
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What happens when something happens Right and there isn't the ability in certain times to be physically intimate, right?
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Where do you draw feeling connected with your spouse?
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from.
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It's from these foundations and if you create or build a relationship.
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This is why couples that have sex early, early on, statistically have a lower chance of succeeding in long-term relationships and marriages, because they give away that part, which is an incredibly important part.
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But they give away that part long before they've actually established the oxytocin, the love hormone, exactly.
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They're just letting it go whenever.
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Now we're just having sex, now we're connected all the time and so Just physically, just physically, and there's no actual connection to.
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So we I've actually we, we know we coach couples where they built their relationship straight, just like they went out three times.
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Third time they're having sex.
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That's all they did.
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They didn't really build a friendship, they didn't build any relationship, they didn't build any kind of structure or patterns or communication or anything that's needed around the relationship.
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And then 10, 15, 20 years later you get to a place where you're like, well, now what?
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And it's not that you can't love that person or don't even love that person, it's just like you built it on something that crumbles.
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Yes.
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You didn't build it on a friendship.
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You didn't build it on good communication or good relationship or values that were the same.
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You didn't build it like that.
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That's right, but there's hope.
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So if you found yourself on the other end of it, you can still start implementing these things and fostering that friendship.
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Like we're saying is like daily hugs or kisses or goodbye rituals.
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Like I hate leaving the house without saying I love you and giving you a hug and a kiss, looking into each other's eyes intentionally for a few minutes.
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Yes, we've done that.
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Is it because we're silently communicating?
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Even though I mean it's awkward, let's be real.
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When you're like you've been to those relationship seminars where you have to sit across from your spouse and you have to stare at them without saying anything, but just right, it can be, and we've been married for 23 years and it's awkward sometimes, it's just weird for the first little bit and then the longer you stare, then the more uncomfortable it gets.
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Maybe, but the more I'm like paying attention Like he's got some new gray hair or he's got Wow, right, I thought we were going to try and keep it hidden.
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I'm really paying attention to your facial features and the way that you're looking at me and as we're saying this, we are staring at each other across the table.
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You have a lovely face.
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Thank you, and as do you.
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It just fosters if you can get past how uncomfortable it might be at the beginning.
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Um, it really does help.
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It really does help, like you, and it's so weird.
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I don't.
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I can't understand the science behind why that is, but if it's 20 seconds that you're holding that gaze, leaving that that 20 seconds like for us, we were like, oh well, we could have done another 20 seconds, yeah, whereas when it first started we were kind of like this is so dumb.
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This is so dumb.
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Why are we doing this?
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Well, and even you said you don't know the science behind it, it's because here's what I think Maybe the world thinks differently or culture thinks different, but God built us to be in relationship with people.
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God built us for a man and a woman to be together, to take those differences that they have and connect them and build a family, to build a home together.
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And the science says that a six-second kiss releases oxytocin and will build and foster intimacy.
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A 20-second hug can reduce cortisol, which is like we're a stress home.
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We're a stress home.
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You fight or flight.
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You fight or flight.
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You see all these stupid things on Instagram where it's like you have high cortisol and here's what you do and these seven things don't want high cortisol no, we don't want high cortisol, but stress is a part of life, so managing it but.
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But the 20 second hug can reduce that with.
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I know I don't mean like a.
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You've ever seen uh on instagram, those guys that are standing in the middle of like uh, like a square somewhere in the states and they said free hugs and people will just come in, and it's never a 20 second hug.
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No.
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But you, you realize the deep need for human connection deep need for human connection and I believe that's how God built us is to have relationships, to have circles, to have fellowship, and men and women need that.
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Exactly so.
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We had given some examples of a holding hands, hugs, kisses, back rubs, looking at at each other.
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You can just be sitting next to each other.
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You don't have to we're, we're, we're, you're just.
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Your proximity is next to each other and you know, there's some things that are going to require some communication, like sometimes, natalie said, well, I want to be alone.
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I'm like, oh, okay, and then I'll leave to go, like doing she's not that kind of alone.
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I'm like I don't know what kind of alone you mean.
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I don't want to talk, I just want to be in the same space.
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So you want me to be with you, which is a definition of not alone, but we're not communicating, and so that's what you want.
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And so there is going to be some yeah Times where you just need to be in each other's presence.
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Yeah, sitting in the same space.
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Right and a foot, touching a foot.
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Exactly, and we've done that.
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Yeah, when we're driving in the car, on the gear shifter, brian always has his hand there and then I put my hand on top of his.
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That's just something we've always done, even since we were dating, even since we were dating even since we were dating right.
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It was super manly when I can drive a standard why do you laugh?
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and?
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not affirm my, my fantasy okay this was the least helpful conversation of all time, wow, right, and even as we're talking about, there's, there's incredibly important for you to to build a friendship like and what we're talking about is emotional intimacy, physical intimacy.
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We're going to get through all the pillars.
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All of them lead towards having a healthy friendship between you and your spouse, and so there's there's a.
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The daily physical connection is important.
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I heard a statistic I don't know where it was, I don't and I'd have to look it up, but there was someone saying is that men because I speak, I read a lot of things pertaining to men, just kind of see where things are going in the world of Christian, non-christian culture is that 40 for 45% of men don't have one close friend to call in in anything like just don't have one close friend.
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There's men that have grown up that have never been told I love you in the last five or 10 years there and uh, the so when we're talking, you have an opportunity with your significant other to build bridges.
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Just think about all the people that don't have access to the kind of thing that you do when you're sitting across from your partner and being like I can build, I can touch her hand or I can touch them, I can hear them, I can look at them, I can see them walking away.
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I can build relationship, listen to the same music, sit on the same couch all of those things it builds emotional stability for each of you to know that, hey, that person is there all the time.
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I can't imagine like.
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This is why divorce frustrates me is that.
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Imagine having that for 15 or 20 years and then a couple years and near the end of your relationship, all of a sudden you just turn off that tap right, and then it's no wonder that after two or three years of struggle, at the end of it you don't feel any bond anymore that's because you've essentially set the bond on fire by not continuing to work on your relationship.
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Well and and that is literally the smallest view of what happens between couples.
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I'm just saying I wouldn't want to be away from that.
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No, but we've heard people say oh, we're just not compatible anymore, we're just not.
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That's a choice.
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I don't feel connected to my significant other anymore, and I would.
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I would venture to say that one of those reasons probably is a lack of physical touch.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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Um, and, and the purpose of it is that that is what keeps that bond alive and that bond thriving in in the relationship.
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And you know, even if I'm, I can be upset with you and when we're in the car, still put my hand on top of your hand on the gear shift and still be upset with you.
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But there's just certain things and I've done that and there's I don don't know.
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We have to be intentional, and not only for our sake, but because we have children's eyes watching our our every move when it comes to how we deal with each other and we want to, we want to model that because we want that in our relationship, so so that when they leave the home we're still connected.
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It's not we're trying to figure out who we are in that moment.
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No, we've been fostering this, and not perfectly, but one foot in front of the other.
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Yeah, we want to do the best job that we can to make sure that our kids are, they understand that we love each other, that even when we fight, even when we have like heated disagreements, that we're not going to be, we're not going to divorce or separate, or let the anger get the like, let it fester for so long that all of a sudden it causes a rift in the relationship no right.
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I mean I'd say this is this is kind of like that.
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But I was sitting on the couch or sitting on the chair last week or this last week and I've made a joke over the years and this will sound funny is that I have a girlfriend and her name is Natalie, and so it's always about my wife, natalie.
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And so now I'm sitting on the couch, my middle son is sitting off to the side and I he looks at me and makes a comment, or nat says, hey, who's on your phone?
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So it's my girlfriend.
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And and you just like, oh, you're dumb, like it had nothing to do.
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But my son responded he's like it was, he's like man, it's good to see yourself along those lines, that you guys have such a healthy relationship that you can say that and you think he's stupid because it's just how we are and I would never make that joke like unless we were in that place and she could trust me with that kind of thing.
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But she, it's true, like you, you build a relationship.
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I remember when the kids were really young we were sitting in the.
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We've probably told the story before.
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We're sitting in this um walmart parking lot oh, having that heated discussion, heated discussion.
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But this was young and it was angry.
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We weren't happy, there was a lot of stress going on, finances were tough and we were having, we were struggling to communicate.
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Well, at that point, and I just remember we're sitting in the walmart parking lot, we're supposed to be here, we're like it was one of those.
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We're in colona let's try and be happy, we love each other.
00:19:15.875 --> 00:19:16.395
And it was one of those.
00:19:16.395 --> 00:19:18.643
We're in Kelowna let's try and be happy, we love each other.
00:19:18.643 --> 00:19:25.674
It was one of those kind of moments and I just remember you turning around looking in the back and I can't remember which kid was crying our middle, our.
00:19:25.816 --> 00:19:29.107
Ezra was crying and Brandon's looking out the window and and uh.
00:19:29.249 --> 00:19:29.548
Amaris.
00:19:29.648 --> 00:19:35.230
We didn't have Amaris, that's right, they're just looking and and you just stop and you kind of like what's going on.
00:19:35.230 --> 00:19:39.241
I said you two are you do is fight and it just.
00:19:39.241 --> 00:19:42.592
It was one of those moments where they thought things were a trouble.
00:19:42.592 --> 00:19:43.434
We talked to them afterwards.
00:19:43.434 --> 00:19:48.492
They thought like, hey, we're in trouble because all we're doing is fighting, and all they saw from us was just fighting.
00:19:49.285 --> 00:19:50.830
Well, and when you?
00:19:50.830 --> 00:19:53.229
It's that thing, when you think they're not watching.
00:19:53.470 --> 00:19:53.691
Right.
00:19:54.071 --> 00:20:06.428
They are oh, man are and they see those little moments.
00:20:06.428 --> 00:20:12.497
They see the moments where you come up behind me and just put your hand on my shoulder, or when we're walking and I put my arm through your arm, or, um, when you put your hand on the small of my back or you give me a hug, or you put your hand around my shoulder, or whatever it might be.
00:20:12.517 --> 00:20:43.786
They see all of those little acts and that not only does it solidify the bond between us, but it also sends a message that mom and dad are healthy to our children, and that is hugely important and sometimes we need we need to see life through our children's eyes and what it's doing to them in order to jolt us into a more healthier pattern Right and I think the the it's social media is such a weird animal when it comes to this type of thing.
00:20:44.488 --> 00:21:17.145
I often think that the couples that are on facebook that are the most vocal about their love for each other and how you held my hand walking down by the water and I love you so much and everything is always going to be the best because year round, I always think those are the ones that have the worst amount of struggles in their relationship maybe because that's what we've seen, yeah well, and maybe because that's what we've seen and I would like, I would say that like you're, but that all needs to be private between you and her.
00:21:17.346 --> 00:21:19.288
And if you're seeing a counselor, see a counselor.
00:21:19.288 --> 00:21:21.731
Don't put stuff on Facebook because it gives you a false.
00:21:21.731 --> 00:21:23.054
But what the kids?
00:21:23.054 --> 00:21:30.785
This is what we learned over the years is that even if Nat and I are putting on a good mask, the kids see everything 100% and they will say things Exactly.
00:21:31.085 --> 00:21:43.037
And they will say things to do you remember when the teacher you got a call from someone saying oh and it was our friend Star was saying your son says you're drinking out of a brown paper bag like you do, like you're an alcoholic, you bought booze.
00:21:43.356 --> 00:21:44.919
Oh right, Do you remember that?
00:21:44.919 --> 00:21:47.942
Yeah, he was telling everyone I drank from a brown bottle.
00:21:47.942 --> 00:21:55.519
A brown bottle, but I was rinsing my mouth out with peroxide and he never, ever saw me spit it out.
00:21:59.644 --> 00:22:00.686
So in his mind I was just drinking it.
00:22:00.686 --> 00:22:01.268
That was a side note.
00:22:01.268 --> 00:22:01.809
Yeah, Side note sidebar.
00:22:01.829 --> 00:22:22.569
Anyway, back on track, back on track, really emphasizing that these kinds of things, I think, lessen the pressure when the expectation is this is not, we're not expecting it to lead to sex, we are just building a bond between us and I think that that, right there one should be honored.
00:22:22.569 --> 00:22:29.656
Yeah, where there shouldn't be an expectation of, well, I'm doing all of these things to cuddle you, and all of that.
00:22:29.758 --> 00:22:30.785
And you're not doing anything.
00:22:31.727 --> 00:22:36.317
And now it's your turn to reciprocate what I want it has to be.
00:22:36.317 --> 00:22:46.114
There has to be a mutual understanding for non-sexual touch or non-sexual routine yeah, whatever that might look like for you.
00:22:46.756 --> 00:22:54.193
I mean, we've listed some things there yeah, and like here, just some like practical ideas.
00:22:54.193 --> 00:22:59.632
Plan like planet, planet, it's like plan sex and if that's what you got to do, plan it.
00:22:59.632 --> 00:23:11.828
But if you just need like a reminder for the first of all, if you, if you are out of alignment with you and your spouse when it comes to just physical, non-sexual touch, where you just this is an intimacy building thing, there's just some practical things.
00:23:11.828 --> 00:23:21.888
Create rituals like like natalie, as soon as she we wake up in the morning, I'll walk over, I'll get her coffee, give her a kiss, sit down, no matter what.
00:23:21.888 --> 00:23:22.952
At night, I give her.
00:23:22.952 --> 00:23:26.550
If I go to bed, at the same time, I give her a kiss, we pray, she goes to sleep.
